Can there ever be peace between Israel and Palestine after the bombing of the al-Ahli Arab Hospital?
Father Dave Smith and Father Mark Battison
Dave: Okay, Father Dave here with Father Mark I’ve, just come back from England and Mark, is from England, and we’re in Sydney, and we’re talking about Palestine, That’s about it, isn’t it? Or Israel and Palestine, which at the moment, is as desperate a situation, I think, as it has been within my lifetime, Would that be correct? No, I guess … It probably would be correct. I mean we had the, I suppose the …
Mark: We’ve had the Intifadas and the previous wars and yeah and so on, but this seems to have escalated past all of those People are now starting to talk in terms of it having world implications.
Dave: Well, this is it I mean … It seems to me we’re looking potentially here at World War III. I think I’m going to find that tweet again, which I shared this morning, which I shared on Twitter and Facebook from a guy called Alexander Dugan who is a professor of some sort. I just thought it was very well put.
“In these days and after…” Sorry
“In these tragic days and after cruel bombing by Israel of a Palestinian Hospital in Gaza, the final loss of American control over the Islamic world is total and irreversible. Now the globalists have to fight simultaneously Russia, China and World Islam If that is not World War, III ..” Is there anything more than the ..,? Oh, “If it’s not World War III, what the hell is it?”, he says, and I thought that really encapsulated the situation.
Mark: Yes, it does, but I think we’re possibly a few steps still away from it, and by that I mean that what’s happening right now in in Israel/Palestine – it’s political, It’s not about individual people or indeed, the difference between Jewish, Christian or Muslim faiths. They’re easy. It’s easy for us to to label things in that way but the truth is that for a very long time the politics has been influencing enormously what’s happening in that part of the world and if you …
It’s very hard to be a Christian on occasions because we believe that Jesus Christ is at the centre of every human being. We believe that the Holy Spirit, works in the world, and we believe that it works for peace and for good, and there are undoubtedly billions and billions of acts of kindness and generosity and hope going on all the time but that’s not where the politicians seem to want to see the world.
Now what do I mean by that? The truth is that there has been oppression and occupation of Palestinians for, you know, well, we could say the last 75 years since Al Nakba, but you know, prior to that, and possibly not immediately prior, but for thousands of years, Jewish and Muslim people lived perfectly happily together in the in the land, that is now Israel/Palestine.
It was called Palestine at that time and then the politicians from Britain got involved, and from France, and the segregation and things of like that happened, and then there was a political guilt in the world and, to a certain degree, a Christian guilt, around the Holocaust. And how do we rectify what happened to the Jews in the Holocaust because that was the greatest event of catastrophe and murder that the world has ever really seen in recorded history? And so, in a sense, like everything, the pendulum never seems, to stop in the middle? It swings from one way to the other.
Israel were given this piece of land but with very clear instructions on how to manage it, and the responsibilities they had towards the indigenous Palestinians, and so on, but because of the guilt, the politicians have never enforced any of those conditions, and Israel, perhaps understandably (and I say ‘Israel’ in terms of again politicians and leaders, not average everyday person on the street), perhaps understandably, decided that this must never happen again, and the only way to do that was to create an environment in which it couldn’t happen again, and that meant to eradicate anybody who wasn’t Jewish Israeli from that part of the land, and that’s where the Nakba came from. It was the reduction, you know, the removal of 750,000 Palestinians from their homes, their lands, their businesses, and it’s been going on ever since. The Nakba was a not a one-off event. It’s a 75-year event.
So, if you see things in those historical terms, you start to see why it is that Israel gets the political support it does now, and why it feels inviolate when it comes to whatever actions they want to take. They are going to find international support rather than International condemnation.
Dave: Yeah, look, I always remember Uri Avnery’s illustration, the great late great Jewish peace activist He used to say it was likea man jumping from a burning building. He had to jump, but he landed on some innocent guy on the side path. When he jumped. You know, the Jewish people needed a place of safety, particularly after the Holocaust – absolutely – but they landed on the Palestinians, and it wasn’t their fault,
Mark: No, but the actions as a consequence of that are very much the responsibility of the government of Israel, which has moved evermore extremism in its right-wing views and its work, so you you’re starting from that point, and then you see,
Dave: it’s been encouraged and bolstered and supported by the US and that’s why …
Mark: Britain caused it and America keeps it going. But, you know, the truth is the US needs a strong, militarily strong, Israel to keep all these horrible Arabs and Muslims in place in the way that they see it because there’s oil considerations, there’s power bases there, but even.
Taking that aside, what Hamas did and, you know, what Hamas have done is to use young men, full of testosterone, who have grown up, been born and grown in total occupation – never known freedom. They’ve seen their parents, grandparents their siblings, get poorly, not allowed out through the gates, not getting visas to get treatment, … dying They’ve lived without the freedom that we take for granted, and then along comes Hamas with promises of revenge and freedom, and when you’re testosterone-filled and you’ve been told that you’re going to be a martyr, and, you know, what you’re doing is legitimate in the sight of God because of what’s happened for over … and away they go.
The truth is this is when I said it’s hard to be, a Christian. We cannot condone violence of any kind, it doesn’t matter if I can understand those frustrations and I can understand the fears. Being a Christian says, no violence, never, ever brings a resolution, It may be short-term resolutions but it will never be long term, and peace is the only, and we’ve often said, those of us who support Israel Palestine, there’ll never be peace for Israel unless they find peace with Palestinians first, and I feel that this has now set us back.
We were at a point where people were starting to talk about – in in senior positions within governments around the world, they were starting to talk and use the word ‘apartheid’, because the Israeli state is an apartheid state. There’s no question of that now. People like Desmond, Tutu identified it. The church in South Africa has come out and acknowledged it, and if those people don’t know what apartheid is ..
Dave: Jimmy Carter, I think, as well, in the US in his book …
Mark: Ah …, yes, well, indeed and there are many other very clever and erudite people around the world who have seen it in this way, and that was starting to gain traction, which meant, ultimately, in a period of time. political pressure would start to come on to the state of Israel, to say to the government, ‘You know,you can’t continue down this road. You have to find a way of making peace’.
We all know the two-state Solution is now dead in the water. It’s, not possible, but that doesn’t mean to say there can’t be peace of some kind or another. And what Hamas have done has now put this back decades probably, because we’re going to have to go back to the starting point of saying to, you know, that what Israel has done in the past will now have been wiped clean from everybody’s memories and it’s almost starting again, you know, and you, Dave, have had, your own experiences. I’ve had my ..
The very first time I went to Yad Vashem, I was leading a group of Christian pilgrims, and I had my collar on, and I walked into Yad Vashem with them and they’re all there for the first time, and there was a great big banner by the door that said, “Never trust these Christians; They still believe … they still blame us for killing their Jesus’‘ – at the opening, entrance to Yad Vashem! And that level of fear in Jews in Israel is, no doubt whatsoever, is underpinning a lot of the things that have happened, and you have to pray for that fear to go, you know: Christians don’t blame Jews for killing their Jesus. .
Dave: Well, look, let’s be honest though. I mean some have. I mean, even great figures like Martin Luther. We’ve had a terrible history of anti-Semitism within the church – no doubt about that, and no doubt there’s some of it still around.
Mark: I don’t hear it on a regular basis. In fact, it’s the old pendulum again. Now, you’re, so careful, not to say anything that could be classed as antisemitic that you daren’t even feel that you can challenge things that are, you know, against the teachings of Jesus
Dave: Yeah. The problem is equating criticism of the actions of the Israeli government, with anti-Semitism, and that’s where we want to say, ‘surely the two have to be separate. things’. You must be able to criticize an action of a government without being seen as being racially prejudiced.
Mark: And that’s why the definition of the IHRA definition, which has been adopted by governments around the world, is so problematic.
Dave: I appreciate what they’re saying is that people use criticism of Israel as a mask for their antisemitism. No doubt that’s been done, but there has to be legitimate political discourse as well which … outside of that.
Now you mentioned, as Christians, we need to look for a peaceful solution. This is one of the distressing things. I read, particularly American politicians, who supposedly are coming from a Christian perspective. I mean that the level of violence, they’re advocating is, just mindless They’re, talking about, they seem to be advocating genocide of the entire Palestinian people,
It’s deeply disturbing, and we included, well, I think I quoted in … last week, Nikki Haley, who’s a presidential candidate, you know, and some of her rhetoric, but other Senators over there … the language is vile It’s as if they’re advocating a genocide of the Palestinian population,
Mark: But the government of Israel has been advocating the genocide of the Palestinian population for a very long time, The …and I’m talking about the current members of the current government, because it’s moved to the right. The people who, you know, you’ve got people in charge of the police who’ve got 51, I think it is, criminal convictions, You’ve got, you’ve, got people who have very, very extreme views around genocide and they are in positions of power.
I had two examples. One was a … I spent time with a young Jewish teacher, Obviously I’m not going to say her name, but she was being encouraged to teach her children, around the 10 and12 year olds, that Arab children were less than human and therefore didn’t need to be seen as human or treated as human. She left the teaching profession because of that.
I’ve spent time, as I’m sure Dave has, and others listening to people in ‘Breaking, the Silence’ and other organizations. Where people who have spent time as in their doing their national service in Israel, who have come away with the most horrendous stories of how they, are taught that to eradicate Palestinians as a perfectly legitimate aim for Jewish people or for the state of Israel, not for Jewish people, my apologies, for the state of Israel. My own view is that the average Jewish person and the average Palestinian person are horrified by what’s going on.
I’ve got some close Jewish friends there, as I know Dave has. We have some close Palestinian friends. I had an email this morning from one saying “My heart is broken into a million, a billion pieces because of the bombing of the hospital in Gaza’‘, and, you know, the request by Israel, for people to move South, and then bombing the only two safe routes that were supposed to be used, and so on,
But in all of this, the one thing we have to hope on is that Christ will eventually conquer all of this because there’s an old saying that, “It will be all right in the end. Well, if it’s not all right, then it’s not the end”, and whether you’re a Zionist and believing that particular, you know, the world will be right when. Christ comes again, or whatever you believe in. The truth is, as a Christian, it’s hard to be a Christian in these times because you’re human side of you wants to cry out for revenge in some case for all the horrors of both sides, but the truth is, as Christians, If we don’t start, or we don’t continue to be messengers and beacons for peace, then who will? If not us, who will?
Christians need to be able to move above all of the politics and all of the violence and all of the hatred. Engage with it, discuss it, share it. I’m involved in putting a conference together next year where we’re going to be talking about anti-Semitism and anti … anti-Christianism, believe it or not, as a result of …
Dave: I didn’t think that was a word
Mark: Well, neither did I..I think we might have made it up, but nevertheless, it’s a result of things that have been happening in Jerusalem, and also islamophobia. And this conference is designed to acknowledge and to work on why it is all of us at times have those feelings and every human being gets those feelings on occasions because they look out at the world and see these things happening, but as Christians we have a God-given duty to talk about the peace that must come and how we can help shape it in our local communities.
We need to talk about peace, not about revenge, not about the violence. We need to preach peace because out of peace comes hope, and out of hope comes joy, and that’s what God wants for his creation – hope. peace, joy. That’s what we want, and even though this is all going on over there, we’re praying like crazy and we’re doing everything we can if the opportunity arises to engage with it.
As Christians, we have a duty to talk about and preach peace, So in our churches, in our families, in our communities, wherever it might be, if this subject comes up, I encourage everybody not to take sides – to preach peace for both – because if God is in all the world and if God’s in every part of the world, then even in the horrors of Israel-Palestine God’s there in the heart of It hoping to bring some kind of peace through any and everybody he can work through.
And. It doesn’t matter if you’re, Christian, Jewish Muslim, whatever. The truth is that we all go back to one God who created us for peace.
Dave: I think you said it all brother We’ll keep praying and keep doing what we can.
……………..
Father Mark Battison is the current president of Friends of Sabeel, Australia – a Christian Palestinian human rights organisation.
Father Dave is a former president of Friends of Sabeel, Australia
Filed under israel and palestine articles by on Oct 19th, 2023. Comment.
The exchange supposedly took place the morning after the Storming of the Bastille in Paris in 1789. King Louis XVI asked the Duke of La Rochefoucauld, “Is it a revolt?” to which the duke replied: “No sire, it’s not a revolt; it’s a revolution.”
The doomed king appears naïve and stupid in this exchange – unaware of what was happening around him. The same surely cannot be the case in the Israeli media’s depiction of the uprising in Jenin as ‘terrorism’. According to today’s press release from Gush Shalom (the Israeli Peace Bloc), this isn’t terrorism. It’s a revolution.
Gush Shalom statement July 3, 2023
This is not an “anti-terror operation”, it is an attempt to suppress an uprising – but the Palestinians of Jenin are determined to be a free people in their country. All the might and power of the IDF will not be enough to remove from their hearts the desire for freedom.
Since this morning, the Israel media is full of endless talk about an “anti-terror operation”. But this is not at all the correct term to describe the invasion and bombing of the Jenin Refugee Camp by the State of Israel and its army. The correct and accurate term is that this is an attempt to suppress an uprising.
The residents of Jenin, more than in all other Palestinian cities, are fed up with the oppressive Israeli occupation rule that has lasted for fifty-six years already, and are determined to rebel and become a free people in their own country. All the might and power of the IDF, the strongest army in the Middle East, will not be enough to uproot from the hearts of the young people of Jenin the natural and self-evident desire for freedom and liberty.
Suffice it to mention that twenty years ago, during the celebrated “Defensive Wall Operation”, the seed of the army went on a rampage in the Jenin refugee camp, killing many of its inhabitants and loosing the bulldozers to and destroy a large part of the refugee camp – yet by now the destroyed houses that were destroyed were rebuilt and a new generation of Jenin residents returned to the struggle. And so it will continue until a peace-loving government is established in Israel that would dare to take the only necessary and unavoidable decision – to end the occupation, withdraw the army and allow the Palestinians to establish their own independent state alongside the State of Israel.
The organizers of the mass protests against the government’s so-called “Judicial reform” should be condemned for continuing to ignore the elephant in the middle of the room, the elephant of the occupation. Even on this day, they hold militant protest actions solely against legislative initiatives designed to harm Israeli democracy and enfeeble the Supreme Court of the State of Israel – without paying any attention to the fact that in Jenin, on which Israeli rule is being imposed by brutal military force, there is not even an iota of democracy.
To the credit of the protest organizers, it should be noted that they do not heed “patriotic” calls by right wingers and do not hesitate to persist with today’s mass demonstrations and the blocking of the seaport of Haifa and Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion Airport. They did in no way stop their uncompromising struggle against the government of Israel, even when this government sent “our soldiers” to fight in Jenin. Anyway, among the protesters the suspicion is growing that the timing of this “operation” in Jenin was deliberately chosen for exactly the same day that the major protest actions were planned throughout Israel. Given the nature of the current Israeli government and the people who set its tone, there are real grounds for such suspicions.
Contact: Adam Keller, Gush Shalom spokesperson +972-(0)54-2340749
Filed under israel and palestine articles, israel and palestine conflict by on Jul 5th, 2023. Comment.
It’s the 75th anniversary of Al-Nakba this year, and things never appear to have been worse for the Palestinian people.
The On-Going Palestinian Nakba
By Jafar M Ramini
May 15th, is the 75th anniversary of the Palestinian Nakba (Catastrophe). And counting. I say ‘and counting’ because the theft of our land, the occupation, the siege on Gaza, the disposition of our people, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and replacement of the Palestinian nation, with Jews, often of dual nationality, from around the world, continues more aggressively than ever. So does the building of illegal settlements to house those interlopers. They too are still going on apace with no end in sight.
Add to that toxic mix, the total indifference of western leaders and the conniving and betrayal of some Arab leaders, not to mention the shameful capitulation and collaboration of the Palestinian Authority and the picture is complete.
Try as I may to look for the infamous light at the end of the long, dark tunnel, I can’t find even the tiniest glimmer.
And I haven’t even got around to mentioning the Israeli prisons which are full of Palestinian men, women and children, tortured and held in disgusting conditions without charge or legal recourse. As if all of this was not enough to emphasise the cruelty and inhumanity of the occupation of our land, the longest in history, the Israeli Occupation Forces continue to raid, unhindered, cities, towns and villages all over Palestine. And what does the ‘free, democratic world’ do about it? This is but a small example of what they do.
The President of the European Commission, Madame Ursula Von der Leyen lauded Israel’s democracy and its ties to Europe.
“Today, we celebrate 75 years of vibrant democracy in the heart of the Middle East,” the German politician said. “We also celebrate 75 years of friendship between Israel and Europe,” pointing out that; “We have more in common than geography would suggest: our shared culture, our values and hundreds of thousands of dual European-Israeli citizens have created a deep connection between us.”
Really, Mme Von der Leyen? Shared values? Is the European Union proud to share with the Israeli Government the concentration camps and the ghettos Israel created for us Palestinians, in our own land? Is Israel’s ‘Administrative Detention policy’ which allows the imprisonment of Palestinians, men, women and children, indefinitely, without charge or legal representation, or even family visits, one that Europe might embrace? Is this what you might call a shared value?
read the rest of this article here
Filed under Israel and Palestine, israel and palestine articles by on May 24th, 2023. Comment.

Nablus 2022
An increase in violence across the West Bank appears as the natural outcome of the far-right policies of the new Israeli government. More settlements are being approved, unrest builds, and the US continues to block all censure of the Israeli government by the UN.
Even so, it isn’t clear how much longer the Netanyahu government will be able to act like this with impunity. The recent reproachment between Iran and Saudi Arabia signals a dramatic shift in the balance of power in the region. It is not a shift that bodes well for the state of Israel, though it may also drive extremists to want to accelerate the process of annexing Palestinian land and the subjugating its people.
The following article, published in Countercurrent.org…, details a terrible example of the larger crisis:
Israel kills 11 in daytime raid on Nablus
By Maureen Clare Murphy
Israeli forces killed 11 Palestinians, including a boy and at least two men over the age of 60, during a daytime raid in the northern West Bank city of Nablus on Wednesday.
More than 100 others were injured, several of them critically, the vast majority by live ammunition, suggesting a further loosening of Israel’s already permissive open fire regulations.
Israeli forces stormed Nablus’ bustling downtown in the mid-morning and besieged a home in which three Palestinian resistance activists were killed, according to media reports.
A military correspondent for Israel’s Channel 13 news said that occupation forces applied the “pressure cooker” procedure, a form of extrajudicial execution.
Under that procedure, occupation forces fire progressively more powerful weapons at the targeted building in an effort to force those inside to surrender. If they refuse to do so, the occupation forces demolish the building, killing all those inside.
Video shows smoke rising from the besieged home in Nablus on Wednesday after it was hit by anti-tank missiles:
Israel released body cam footage recorded during the raid, showing its forces targeting and blowing up the home:
Israeli media reported that the military aimed to arrest three Palestinians “involved in the planning of shooting attacks” in the future and the shooting death of a soldier near a settlement last October.
The three reportedly targeted men – Muhammad Abdalghani Abdalfattah, 23, Walid Dakhil, 26 and Hussam Isleem, 24 – were killed, along with Adnan Saba Baara, 72, Muhammad Khalid Anbusi, 25, Tamer Nimer Minawi, 33, Musab Munir Muhammad Uweis, 26, Abdelaziz Ashqar, 65, Muhammad Farid Muhammad Haj Ahmad, 16 and Yasir Jamil Abdalwahab Qanir, 23.
Palestinian media outlets reported late Wednesday that an older man died from his injuries after inhaling tear gas during the raid.
Read the rest of this article here.
Filed under israel and palestine articles by on Apr 26th, 2023. Comment.

Al-Aqsa Mosque
While the Western church celebrated Good Friday, it was a bitter Friday indeed for the Palestinians of East Jerusalem. It was the third Friday of Ramadan, and Muslim worshippers went to pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque but were prevented entry, and a number were beaten by Israeli Police. Street vendors and shopkeepers were also attacked by Police.
At the same time, Israel’s National Security Minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, leaked a recording in which he said, “There’s nothing we can do. They murder. It’s in their nature. That’s the mentality of the Arabs.” Given the history of racial persecution and religious oppression experienced by the Jewish people, it is hard to believe that any representative of the State or Israel could speak like this.
The UN Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People released the following statement on Wednesday, 05 April 2023
BUREAU CONDEMS ISRAEL FORCES INTRUSION AND VIOLENCE AGAINST PALESTINIAN WORSHIPERS IN HOLY SITES IN JERUSALEM
Following is a statement by the General Assembly Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, issued today:
The Bureau of the United Nations General Assembly’s Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People condemns the raid by Israeli Forces inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque Compound/Al-Haram Al-Sharif on 4 April 2023, which resulted in hundreds of Palestinian worshippers beaten, injured and detained while also causing damage to the building of the al-Qibli mosque. This violence is particularly egregious during a time of heightened religious sensitivity with the observance of Ramadan, Passover, and Easter.
Israel’s illegal policies and practices have continued to entrench its illegal occupation of the Palestinian Territory it has occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, with the Gaza Strip additionally severely isolated under a nearly 16-year blockade. Since the start of 2023, Israel has increased its military operations inside the Occupied Palestinian Territory, resulting in the killing of at least 95 Palestinians, including 17 children. The Bureau calls for accountability for all of these violations.
The Bureau reiterates its calls for respect of international law, including humanitarian and human rights law, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Israel must comply with its international legal obligations, including in accordance with UN resolutions. The Bureau also reiterates its calls for respect of the historical status quo of the Holy Sites, respect for the sanctity of all places of worship, and for a halt of provocations by Israeli forces and incitement by extremist Israeli settlers in and around them. Furthermore, the Bureau calls for respect the freedom of all worshippers to access the religious sites in accordance with established parameters.
Finally, the Bureau calls on leaders to exert influence and ensure de-escalation and calm during religious festivities. The Bureau believes that a just and lasting peace will only be achieved with the end of Israel’s occupation, the realization of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, including the Palestine refugees and the achievement of the two-State solution according to international law and past agreements resulting in the independence of the State of Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital.
Filed under israel and palestine articles by on Apr 11th, 2023. Comment.
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